tv Martin Bashir MSNBC December 12, 2012 1:00pm-2:00pm PST
greeting card for you and it's all yours. >> thank you very me card. it is 12/12/12. you know what that means? we're one day closer to the dreaded fiscal cliff and washington is freezing over. the fiscal cliff is coming to town. >> he says he's an optimist. >> i remain optimistic. >> i remain the most optimistic person in this town. >> but he doesn't sound optimistic. >> i'm pretty confident republicans would not hold middle class taxes hostage. >> we've got differences. >> taxes are going up one way or the other. >> the president and i had a deliberate talk. >> the key is to make sure the taxes go up on the high end individuals like you and me, barbara. we can afford it. >> they're going to have to cave in on this rate increase on the rich. >> we're going to stay here right up until christmas eve. >> the time is running short. >> merry cliffmas.
♪ bundle up, everybody. because it is cold out there. and with just 12 days to hanging our stockings by the chimney and 20 days until the dreaded fiscal cliff, there's a distinct chill in the air. after the exchange of new offers, the president phones john boehner last night for one what aide described as a tense call. the speaker today, he had a bit of trouble finding just the right word. >> the president and i had a deliberate talk. i didn't say it was tense. the president and i had a pretty frank conversation. >> okay, well, whether it was tense or deliberate or frank, it's clear it wasn't cheerful or chummy. >> we spoke honestly and openly about the differences that we face. i was born with a glass half full.
i remain the most optimistic person in this town. but we've got some serious differences. >> serious differences, indeed. democratic sources tell nbc that the reason for the tension was nestled in republicans' latest counter offer which included a permanent extension of tax cuts for the wealthy. yes, they're not just guilding the lily, they're gilding the gilded. >> holding hostage the middle income tax cuts to tax cuts for the wealthy. that's getting really stale. it's getting really old. and the closer we get to christmas, it's really getting boring. >> yes he who fiddled while rome burned. and even that hyperbolic of hysteria fed bernanke says this
is already damaging the economy. >> it's already effecting business investment and hiring decisions by creating uncertainty or creating pessimism. clearly this is a major risk factor and a major source of uncertainty about the economy going forward. >> this is serious, and the time is running out. all we can agree on. but mister, i want what i want when i want it. eric cantor is willing to dig in his heels and keep everyone working over the christmas holidays. >> the president seems to be walking us ever so slowly towards the cliff. we've said we're committed to staying here. we're going to stay here right up until christmas eve, throughout the time and period before the new year. >> somebody get that man a corn cob pipe. but if mr. cantor and his republican counterparts want to ruin the holidays for everyone by holding the middle class hostage to the rich, well, santa's got a list he'd like you to know about. >> coal is a lot heavier than
toys. i don't want to have to come back here in two weeks with a bag full of coal for those too naughty to do the right thing for our children and families. >> boehner and the boys, you better not cry, you better not pout. let's get right to our panel now. here in new york with us we're delighted to have sir richard wolffe, vice president and executive editor of msnbc.com. and msnbc contributor jared bernstein a former economist for vice president joe biden. and with us from washington is democratic strategist julian epstein. richard, i have to start with you. did the president run on raising taxes or did he not? >> he did. >> duss all the public polling show a majority support this strategy? >> people support raising taxes on the super wealthy. >> does speaker boehner need hearing aids for christmas? >> and possibly a dictionary or
thesaur thesaurus. everybody knows how it's going to play out. it's just when. at some point the politics is inexrabble here. when it comes to this piece of it. if they really want to get what they want which is cutting what they call entitlements, what other call safety nets -- >> what others call earned benefits. >> then they should go to that which is what they count as the most important things. get it over and done with. they know they're going to cave on taxing for the wealthy. get to what they really want. and make the president pay for what he wants. >> jared, isn't the problem here that republicans keep changing what the primary concern is? originally it was the deficit. so the president says okay. let's raise revenues and let's cut some spending. then they say no it's not the deficit. it's job creation and we can't tax job creators. the problem is how do you have a solution to a republican problem
that changes every day economics? >> it's a great point. i often wondered about this. a lot of republicans for the last few years have been extremely critical of any kind of government spending that has to do with job creation. there's a mantra mong republicans. government doesn't create jobs. all of a sudden now with the tax increases and the sequester, the automatic spending cuts you have republicans saying my goodness if we engage in this -- if we go over this fiscal cliff we're hurting the job market. it's fascinating to see how they change messages day by day. another example is the increase in the medicare eligibility age. this is a big thing on their wish list. this does not save money. this raises the cost of health care if you look economywide. there's not a good policy reason to do this. but it becomes a trophy. a substantiveless trophy. >> right. okay. julian, boehner's office is denying that they asked for
permanent tax cuts for the rich saying any talk of making any rates permanent is moot because part of their offer is doing comprehensive tax reform next year. are you buying that? >> no. i think it's important right now to step back and understand the stage craft that the losing side in these debates always has to go through. i went through two of these negotiations very intimately when i was a staff government reform committee in '91. it's slow walking. when one side realizes they've lost debate but not able to go to their caucus and tell them they lost. in boehner's case because he's a weak speaker at the moment. what they have to do is pick the process up to the 11th hour to show their caucus they did everything they could possibly do but they have no option but to agree to the other side of the debate. everybody agrees that the obama administration has won the debate on the met ta issue right now. and that is the tax rates.
they won the debate. once you solve that issue, it's a question of finding another 500 or 600 billion in tax cuts. which i think the two sides are not that far. but they can find that money. the point here is i think this deal is largely done. and i think this is mostly theatrics. and all a function of the fact that boehner is a weak speaker and he has to slow walk his caucus into this position that they've lost when everybody already knows they lost the debate. >> but jared, here's the question. the president appears to still be compromising or willing to compromise even though as julian just says, there's really no engagement from speaker boehner in terms of substantive change. we had the president talking of increasing from 400 to 600. he's talking about corporate tax reform. all of these things are things the president is compromising
on. what's boehner doing? >> actually, i think that there is no deal absent compromise. and i agree with what julian said and richard said the deal is essentially done. but the deal will involve increased tax rates and certainly higher revenue on the upper income folks and it will involve spending cuts and entitlements will be on the table. the corporate tax thing is interesting. this is a plan the white house has had for awhile. basically revenue neutral. but that's something the white house has had in its pocket for a i while. >> do you agree that with jared's point that ultimately this is stage craft and not substantive policy. >> i do believe that everyone knows the contours of the deal. but between here and there, between now and getting the deal done we can see a lot of turmoil in the real economy and the markets. not that the marketing really matter, but just look what
happened with the debt ceiling debate. we all knew that america wasn't going to default on its debt, but getting there was incredibly painful. it was damaging. it damaged the economy as well. and that's when you see someone like bernanke making these warnings. republicans should know this. they are the ones who keep saying what we need in the tax code is certainty. tax rates need to be permanent. this is a tremendous amount of uncertainty when we know what the outcome is. so just do it. >> julian, to richard's point, the head of the imf has warned the administration here that if this matter is not resolved soon, there is going to be collateral damage globally. does speaker boehner take cognizance of comments like that? or is he simply focused on persuading his own caucus to buy what he's offering? >> we've seen republicans willing to strap the bomb to
their chest and blow up the entire environment. we saw that in october of '08 when the markets caved and we needed the t.a.r.p. reform. we saw it in july of 2011. i think they realized they have no leverage in this case. so i think it's different. and i think the key thing here to the point about slow walking the caucus, it also goes to the idea that to the victor goes though spoils. it is only at the end of the day going to show him and the republicans to be weaker and to have less leverage which giving obama more leverage on two things to your question. one is the debt ceiling extension issue which is the point that the president has made. he's not going to allow the republicans to hold this economy hostage. and another round of debt ceiling negotiations. i think he has to hold firm on that. the other thing i think the president has to hold firm on is getting stimulus in this plan. to jared's point, republicans have been making all the arguments if you cut too much you're going to hurt the economy. that's what the democrats said during the stimulus debate which
jared was a leader on in 2009. it's a point i think they're still relevant on. >> let me just amplify those excellent points. one thing i have heard and i'm very happy about this is that the white house and these negotiations has been holding firm on the stimulus piece of this package. >> the 50 billion additional. >> there's 50 billion on infrastructure, an extension of unemployment. something like a payroll tax check boost there. i don't know if all those pieces stay in place. at least what i've heard is that they've been holding firm on that. and that's good news. because remember there's an economy out there. and unemployment is still too elevated. and the output gaps are too large. we forget about that. this is pure self-inflicted nonsense when you're looking at an economy catching a bit of momentum. >> that's right. and the point here is that the -- >> very quickly. >> the debt is a long-term problem. the immediate problem we face is unemployment. >> indeed we do. >> so we're dealing with the long-term problem, not the immediate problem here.
>> i wish that speaker boehner was listening to all three of you. thank you all so much. coming up, as the debate over the fiscal cliff royals the capitol, workers fight for their rights in car country. >> our palms are sweaty. working in a factory all day building chevys. like the volt. you plug it in then you win. ecologically because if it was an actual race you would not actually. you got to collect for the union or going to come and take away our jobs or to the chinese kids with the tiny hands. while a body in motion tends to stay in motion. staying active can actually ease arthritis symptoms. but if you have arthritis, staying active can be difficult. prescription celebrex can help relieve arthritis pain so your body can stay in motion. because just one 200mg celebrex a day can provide 24 hour relief for many with arthritis pain and inflammation. plus, in clinical studies, celebrex is proven to improve daily physical function
so moving is easier. celebrex can be taken with or without food. and it's not a narcotic. you and your doctor should balance the benefits with the risks. all prescription nsaids, like celebrex, ibuprofen, naproxen, and meloxicam have the same cardiovascular warning. they all may increase the chance of heart attack or stroke, which can lead to death. this chance increases if you have heart disease or risk factors such as high blood pressure or when nsaids are taken for long periods. nsaids, including celebrex, increase the chance of serious skin or allergic reactions or stomach and intestine problems, such as bleeding and ulcers, which can occur without warning and may cause death. patients also taking aspirin and the elderly are at increased risk for stomach bleeding and ulcers. do not take celebrex if you've had an asthma attack, hives, or other allergies to aspirin, nsaids or sulfonamides. get help right away if you have swelling of the face or throat, or trouble breathing. tell your doctor your medical history and find an arthritis treatment for you. visit celebrex.com and ask your doctor about celebrex. for a body in motion.
opportunity to bury the country in pessimism has said the president seems to be walking us ever so slowly toward the cliff. congressman elijah cummings is a democrat from maryland and a member of the oversight committee. good afternoon. >> good afternoon, martin. >> we'll get to the fiscal cliff in a moment. first i must ask your reaction to the controversial right to work measure signed into law in michigan. before i do so, please i'd like you to listen to what michigan governor rick snyder had the temerity to say on "morning joe." listen to this. oh. we appear to not have that. we seemed to suggest this morning that for some reason this was good for workers. how is right to work -- >> nothing could be further from the truth. basically what he has done is blind sided a lot of folks up there in michigan. and it's not good for workers in
that workers will be able to benefit, they don't have to join a union. but now they'll be getting representation for better benefits and better wages. and not presenting any kind of dues to pay for that representation. and that's a deliberate effort, martin, to destroy unions. we see it here in the congress. i've seen it in my own committee. there has been a march by our republican colleagues to do everything in their power to destroy and weaken unions. and this is just another effort in that road. and i think people have to see this for what it is. you know, keep in mind that governor snyder said he was not going to get involved in this because he thought it would be divisive. and right after this election, martin, where the people said they wanted to make sure that the middle class was strengthened, the very type of organization, that is the
unions, that have worked so hard to strengthen the middle class and enable people like me to move up from poor folks to the middle class, they are now saying we want to do away with them. and this is a perfect example of it. >> indeed. on to the issue of the fiscal cliff. i understand that republicans are not persuaded by the president's election victory. they're not persuaded by all the polling that says americans support tax increases for the wealthy. but today a democratic source telling nbc news that speaker boehner may be proposing a permanent extension of all the bush tax cuts. now, what needs to happen to persuade speaker boehner? i mean, do we need to raise lazarus from the dead? >> i don't know what we have to do. the public has clearly spoken. this election showed that people in regard to making less than $250,000 the tax cuts should be extended. we agree on that.
we need to let that happen as soon as possible. but they have also said that those who have benefitted and are doing very well in our society should pay more. and so i don't know why they can't get this through their heads, martin. but they need to get it. because the public has spoken and the public has been very clear on that. >> and today former speaker nancy pelosi schooled speaker boehner on what it means to make difficult decisions as a leader. take a listen to this. >> i had to do it as speaker. do you know what it was like for me to bring a bill to floor to fund the war in iraq? so it's tough. but you have to do it. so is the point that you don't want to put your members on the spot, figure it out. we did. figure it out. >> there's nancy pelosi appealing to boehner figure it out twice. how high is the level towards the speaker? >> it's very high. i think leader pelosi is
absolutely right. at some point the leader is placed in that position to bring members together to do the right thing. leader pelosi when she was speaker she did an excellent job of it to bring us together to make those right decisions. and some of those decisions are hard. your entire caucus is not going to agree with you all the time, but that's the role of a leader, martin. that's what leaders do. that's why they're selected to do what they do. and so i'm hoping that he will take the leader pelosi's advice and get this done for the american people. it's not about democratic or republican. it's about doing what is right for the american people and doing it right now. >> indeed, sir. congressman elijah cummings. thank you as always. >> always a pleasure. stay with us. our type lines coming up. >> obama is daring republicans literally to blink. well, the joke's on him because i know some republicans who had their eyelids surgically removed. ♪
♪ [ male announcer ] campbell's green bean casserole. it's amazing what soup can do starts with arthritis pain and a choice. take tylenol or take aleve, the #1 recommended pain reliever by orthopedic doctors. just two aleve can keep pain away all day. back to the news. that was me... the day i learned i had to start insulin for my type 2 diabetes. me... thinking my only option was the vial and syringe dad used. and me... discovering once-daily levemir® flexpen. flexpen® is prefilled. doesn't need refrigeration for up to 42 days. no drawing from a vial. dial the exact dose. inject by pushing a button. flexpen® is insulin delivery... my way. levemir® (insulin detemir [rdna origin] injection) is a long-acting insulin used to control high blood sugar in adults and children
with diabetes and is not recommended to treat diabetic ketoacidosis. do not use levemir® if you are allergic to any of its ingredients. the most common side effect is low blood sugar, which may cause symptoms such as sweating, shakiness, confusion, and headache. severe low blood sugar can be serious and life threatening. ask your healthcare provider about alcohol use, operating machinery, or driving. other possible side effects include injection site reactions. tell your healthcare provider about all medicines you take and all of your medical conditions. get medical help right away if you experience serious allergic reactions, such as body rash, trouble with breathing, fast heartbeat, or sweating. with flexpen®... say good night to vial and syringe. ask your doctor about levemir® flexpen. covered by 90% of insurance plans, including medicare. find your co-pay at myflexpen.com.
we are gathered here today to celebrate the union of tim and laura. it's amazing how appreciative people are when you tell them they could save a lot of money on their car insurance by switching to geico...they may even make you their best man. may i have the rings please? ah, helzberg diamonds. nice choice, mate. ...and now in the presence of these guests we join this loving couple. oh dear... geico. 15 minutes could save you 15% or more on car insurance.
authorities today identified 22-year-old jacob tyler roberts as the man who walked into an oregon shopping mall packed with holiday shoppers and children in line to see santa and opened fire with an ar-15 semiautomatic rifle. police say roberts who wore a hockey mask during the rampage killed two shoppers, injured a third before taking his own life. police also say they have no motive for the crime and that the high powered weapon had been stolen. and so now comes the predictable cycle. a horrendous crime with firearm stronger than any hunter would need. an honest attempt at a gun control conversation that america badly needs. and then contempt as anyone who would speculate about the application of the second amendment. lather, rinse, repeat. today seen through the prison of
yet another mass shooting. the 15th this last year. last week seen through the prism of domestic violence after an nfl shot and killed his wife and then himself. we know where it goes. condemnation of the crime, but no political courage to do anything. but if congress were prepared to do something, anything, that would be the best christmas present of all time. jamie and matt were looking for gifts at toys 'r' us. let's see if we can find similar gifts at walmart for less? okay? fisher-price servin' surprises kitchen -- $39.97 on rollback. that's twenty bucks less than toys 'r' us. wow! that's a big difference. would your daughters like it? they'd love it! see for yourself if you could save on the brands you want. walmart.
but they haven't experienced extra strength bayer advanced aspirin. in fact, in a recent survey, 95% of people who tried it agreed that it relieved their headache fast. visit fastreliefchallenge.com today for a special trial offer. for thos...this...ions of doing this... ...and this, dancing in their heads... ...we have these. home depot gift cards. give the gift of doing, in-store or online. from eternal optimist and cold reality to labor pains in michigan. here are today's top lines. you want to dance? >> i remain the most optimistic person in this town. m. >> he doesn't sound optimistic. >> obama is daring republicans literally to blink. >> i'm pretty confident. >> they're going to have to cave
in. >> i know some republicans who had their eyelids surgically removed. >> while names are thrown out. >> the fiscal cliff is coming to town. >> there is a process. >> merry cliffmas. >> we're going to stay here right up until christmas eve. >> how many times is charlie brown going to try to kick that football? >> the key is to make sure the taxes go up. we can afford it. >> you have a national treasure. >> i'm a warrior and i'm a statesman and i'm not going away. >> puts me in a stupid hat and uses a picture. we know their game. >> wimpy pastors produce wimpy christians. >> there's a new tone being set by big labor and looks like this. >> it's really a right to work around the union. like strip bars call themselves for gentlemen's clubs. >> you got hit hard. off chipped tooth and other injury. >> i'm underretsed, overworked and still tough enough to take
the union's greatest punch. i'm still tough enough to take this punch. >> capitulating to the mob. it looks like the arab streets. hope and change and we're going to man the barricades and demand change right now. >> if i would have defended myself, they would have killed me. i will press charges and you will go to jail or face me in the people's octagon in a legal mixed martial arts bout. >> working in a factory all day building chevys. like the volt. you plug it in then you win ecologically because if it was an actual race you would not. >> let's get right to our panel now. goldie taylor is an msnbc contributor and toure host of the cycle. i want to put this to both of you. the far right has moved from the war on christmas. now a war on jamie foxx. he's part of the film django
unchained. can i just get your reaction to this? the war on jamie foxx? >> if i live a thousand years, matt drudge will never become an arbitor for me. those he links to and from. they make a lot of money for this length they've got going on. i think they trade -- peddle this stuff on a daily basis and do it to line their own pockets. i just don't give that kind of credibility to a matt drudge. but in terms of a war on jamie foxx for making a mockery for the world that is matt drudge, i mean how black is that? >> how black is that. was pure satire on a "saturday night live" monologue. he was literally making fun of, making hat of that far right
fringe. who frankly don't like the idea there's a black man in the white house. who frankly don't like the idea that his immediate african heritage. they want their country back. some of them would like to secede. it isn't because of socialism that they'd like to secede. it's because the man in the white house is black. >> before you speak, let's play that piece of the tape that goldie just referred to. and then you can respond to it. here it is. >> i get out the chains. i get free. i save my wife and i kill all the white people in the movie. how great is that? >> mr. sean hannity imploded upon hearing that. i thought he was quoting from the movie itself. >> he's talking about what he did in the movie which is heroic. he's a slave liberated at the begin og the movie. we're not revealing anything you don't know. he goes on to kill all the slave
masters and the people who helped slavery function in the film. that is heroic. that is not a bad thing to do morally. the clarity between evil and good there is quite obvious. to think there's some reason or way to attack jamie foxx for killing the slave masters and their helpers is to turn off half your brain and say slave master killing, slave killing, it's equal. it's not close to equal. was there the same discussion about killing hitler in inn glorious basterds? no. i find it brilliant and beautiful to think about this slave escaping and then killing all the white people. he's not this wild beast because he doesn't kill christoph who helps him escape from slavery. he kills the white people enslaving himself and others. >> didn't the real problem begin when jamie foxx appeared on the
b.e.t. awards and -- sorry the soul train awards and began by thanking his loud and savior barack obama. and that also was deemed to have been a sacrilegious comment. >> i think some of those folks are upset with his use of the n-word in the movie repeatedly as it were. i don't know that you can do a film focused around the slave trade in that era did sh. >> were they not using that term? is that not historically accurate? >> incredibly without the word being used. it was used like running water. so i think that this is like the war on christmas just fanfare. i think it is a money making mission for some of these websites to produce these columned out pieces to derive more traffic. they are baiting, playing to the least of these. those folks who still harbor some of the worst prejudices
stereotypes about people like me, like toure, like yourself. i think it is irresponsible, it is dangerous frankly. if we look at this particular president and we look at the secret service statistics, the number, the sheer number of assassination threats that come into this white house either by the phone or e-mail or internet, it keeps the secret service quite busy. >> can we talk about quentin tarantino's use of the n-word in all of his films. obviously it's going to be in a movie about slavery. he's used this a lot in his films. almost always uses it in two ways. someone morally bankrupt. that this person should not be listened to. they're a thug, they're a bad person so they use this word. or it's a black person who is super hip and that's part of their usage of this. this is part of the american lexicon. so within the context of art, i
have no problem putting it in people's mouths. the only sort of complicated usage of it and he does this in purpose. in pulp fiction, jimmy uses it himself. but he's married to a black woman. so i'm trying to wrap my head around it. why did he think he could use it -- >> that he has license. >> but i think he's messing with us there as well. >> one of the problems here it seems to me is fox news and others have been irate in complaining about political correctness when it comes to something like the war on christmas. so they say any desire to welcome and accept people of other faiths is politically correct. that we should simply celebrate christian values. when it comes to this issue, if they have found values and are condemning jamie foxx. >> it's like the term of reverse racism. i don't know what that is. that's a new indictment on people of color who would happen to talk about whatever they believe their social position is
in this country or how we interface with others whether it be in the work place, school, play, in our communities. when we talk about that and espouse what our journey has been, suddenly we are guilty of reverse racism. i think that is a real problem. >> what we see is mentioning race then becomes racism for a lot of people. as if it didn't exist until you pointed out. >> until you pointed it out. everyone's fed up with you pointing it out. >> but then nobody noticed it before. it didn't exist like the matrix. but then i sort of pulled the wool from your eyes. my god. he actually is white. he's black. you messed it up by mentioning it. come on. it was already there. >> of course. i wish we had two hours. thank you both. coming up, the president faces a pair of foreign policy flare-ups. stay with us. twins. i didn't see them coming. i have obligations. cute obligations, but obligations.
i need to rethink the core of my portfolio. what i really need is sleep. introducing the ishares core, building blocks for the heart of your portfolio. find out why 9 out of 10 large professional investors choose ishares for their etfs. ishares by blackrock. call 1-800-ishares for a prospectus which includes investment objectives, risks, charges and expenses. read and consider it carefully before investing. risk includes possible loss of principal. i'll set up the video conference to iron out the details. this cdw cloud collaboration powered by cisco is pretty amazing. we interact with our offices, anywhere, anytime. charles, you're one of the greatest losers of all time. thank you. [ male announcer ] it started long ago.
the joy of giving something everything you've got. it takes passion. and it's not letting up anytime soon. at unitedhealthcare insurance company, we understand that commitment. and always have. so does aarp, an organization serving the needs of americans 50 and over for generations. so it's no surprise millions have chosen an aarp medicare supplement insurance plan, insured by unitedhealthcare insurance company. like all standardized medicare supplement plans, they help cover some of the expenses medicare doesn't pay. and save you up to thousands in out-of-pocket costs. to find out more, request your free decision guide. call or go online today. after all, when you're going the distance, it's nice to have the experience and commitment to go along with you. keep dreaming. keep doing. go long.
the president's biggest challenges overseas at the moment lie at the bottom of the philippine sea and the heart of a civil war in the middle east. north korea has just conducted its most successful missile launch ever. state news agencies claim it carried a weather satellite. regardless the theory is one day the north careens could conduct a missile that could reach as far as the u.s. mainland and potentially loaded with a nuclear device. for the latest on this and civil war in syria, we're joined bidet that -- bidet that milbank. ambassador, we're told north korea has as many as a few dozen nuclear warheads. jay carney the president's spokesperson said that the president is concerned about north korea's behavior, but what do we do to make sure they don't create a missile that could potentially hit the u.s. mainland? >> that, martin, is the $64,000
question. because this is the most successful launch of what essentially a disguised ballistic missile test. the north koreans have never been able to achieve this type of success in sne past. it's an indication of how close they are to construct a missile capable of what you just said of reaching the west coast. and the best we have so far in terms of an arsenal of options is another u.n. security council resolution to impose even yet additional sanctions on north korea that all depends on how china reacts to that. and number two, while they continue to test and provoke the united states, we still feel compelled to bail them out on humanitarian assistance because of the starvation of their people. we're caught between foreign policy and the real fear they're going to have a nuclear missile test soon. >> dana, the chair of the house committee on foreign affairs calls this missile launch the result of quote, the obama
administration's policies of appeaseme appeasement. i'm sorry to have to ask you this question for about the 9 millionth time. why can't the gop move past its baseless 2012 attack lines and try to think of something constructive to do with this kind of issue? >> right. it feels like -- and it's not just north korea. we heard the same on iran. the cowboy diplomacy saying be tougher. in this case what exactly does that mean? does that mean launch a strike on this nuclear power potentially causing the loss of tens of millions of people. what exactly is the alternative here now that north korea has been in this position since it gained nuclear power under -- during george w. bush's watch. so the notion of a sort of rattling during these times is not terribly productive. and indeed the argument is often
made that the more aggressive the response is, the more it empowers the government in north korea. so less is often more in these circumstances. >> indeed it is. ambassador, if i could move you to syria. we learned today that syria is launching skud missiles on their own people. the president had this to say. take a listen. >> we've made a decision that the syrian opposition coalition is now inclusive enough, is reflective and representative enough of the syrian population that we consider them the legitimate representative of the syrian people in opposition to the assad regime. >> so ambassador, how does america's afact change in practice? >> it signals to the other countries that have recognized this syrian coalition that it's time to begin providing more
effective weaponry we have been unable to do. so britain, france allies are already doing that. and it shows to the effect our diplomacy has been effective to help this coalition which is now meeting in morocco under the friends of syria arrangement. but the most important thing here is while this is diplomatic recognition, martin, the fighting drags on. and the humanitarian crisis is abysmal. and that's the real story here. >> i agree entirely. dana, with the president recognizing the rebels, do you think this suggests that he may be planning to provide some major military hardware to those who are fighti ining assad? >> this is a necessary first step towards that. it's an incremental development and one that was not unexpected to occur. it doesn't do anything by itself. but it seems to be heading that that direction as a political matter at least. i think it removes the
accusation that the president's leading from behind. because he has now at least caught up with the european allies. so it doesn't really change anything by itself. you could see the direction it's moving in. >> absolutely. thank you both, gentlemen. much more ahead, but first hampton pierson has the cnbc market wrap. >> hello. ben bernanke speaks and a market rally goes south. the dow closing down about three points. the s&p up marginally. the nasdaq losing eight points. that's it from cnbc. first in business worldwide. ♪ [ male announcer ] this is karen and jeremiah. they don't know it yet, but they're gonna fall in love, get married, have a couple of kids, [ children laughing ] move to the country, and live a long, happy life together where they almost never fight about money. [ dog barks ] because right after they get married,
they'll find some retirement people who are paid on salary, not commission. they'll get straightforward guidance and be able to focus on other things, like each other, which isn't rocket science. it's just common sense. from td ameritrade. campbell's has 24 new soups that will make it drop over, and over again. ♪ from jammin' jerk chicken, to creamy gouda bisque. see what's new from campbell's. it's amazing what soup can do.
have uncovered the reason. the speaker is asking for the bush tax cuts to be made permanent for rich and poor as part of a deal to avoid the fiscal cliff. and the very same christine welker joins us live from the white house. you reported this earlier today. the speaker's office is now pushing back a little bit claiming there are no parameters on what tax reform would look like. but they aren't denying what you said, are they? >> they're not directly denying it. their point is raising tax rates or keeping them low is a moot point. because they have always been opposed to raising tax rates on wealthy americas. they say it would hurt small business owners. they're calling for overall tax reform, they say. but this has evolved into a game of chicken with both sides refusing to concede anything until the other side does first. so yesterday it seemed like
there was some movement. today it seems as though these negotiations are really to some extent falling apart. as you know president obama and john boehner spoke on the phone yesterday. sources on both sides are describing that phone conversation as tense in large part because of this issue over the tax rates. there is still no movement on this issue. of course the clock is ticking. there's not a whole lot of time left to get a deal done. and as you pointed out, house speaker john boehner, harry reid also preparing conferences to potentially work through the holidays. that is a tactic to some extent, but it is still an indication that as of right now, there's really no deal in sight. >> right. and now today speaker boehner said the president's plan has absolutely no chance on this hill. take a listen to this. >> the president's called for $1.4 trillion worth of revenue. that cannot pass the house or the senate. and if you look at -- if you look at our budget, we have no
new revenue in our budget. the president had $1.6 trillion worth of new revenue. >> so he says it's never going to happen. but the president says he's confident speaker boehner will ultimately cave. are these meetings, these phone calls, are these all -- >> a bit of political theater if you speak to folks who are involved in these negotiations. they will admit that it is important to run down the clock. they want their conferences to feel as though they put up a fight. they can't say they put up a good fight if you don't run the clock down. and also a deal that comes out too soon could wind up getting crushed under the political pressure. but the fact remains, martin, that yesterday neither side was really giving a whole lot of information. today we're getting some leaking from both sides. it's an indication that these negotiations are to some extent falling apart.
that the two sides are working less together and really now they are again sort of turning to the public and the media to make their case to try to get a deal done in their best interests. some people say they need a deal done in the next several days or the broad framework of a deal in order to get this passed by the first of the year. of course, that is the all-important deadline. and at this point, it seems as though that's not going to happen. so both sides sort of digging in their heels as these negotiations are stalled at least for now it appears. >> okay. now casting our minds forward and if you can briefly, secretary hillary clinton was asked about a run in 2016. she did not have a firm answer. do you know a single republican in washington who's buying it? >> i don't know a republican or a democrat who's buying that. many say look the reality is she
just hasn't made up her mind yet. she wants to take some time to relax after serving as secretary of state. but i spoke with one republican operative today who said that the clinton run would be something to be feared. the republicans really believe that she would certainly be one of the strongest candidates they could face in 2016. >> no kidding. kristen welker, thank you. >> thanks. and we'll be right back. [ male announcer ] playing in the nfl is tough. ♪ doing it with a cold, just not going to happen. vicks dayquil -- powerful non-drowsy 6-symptom cold & flu relief. ♪ no matter what city you're playing tomorrow. [ coughs ] [ male announcer ] you can't let a cold keep you up tonight. ♪ vicks nyquil -- powerful nighttime 6-symptom cold & flu relief.
but proven technologies allow natural gas producers to supply affordable, cleaner energy, while protecting our environment. across america, these technologies protect air - by monitoring air quality and reducing emissions... ...protect water - through conservation and self-contained recycling systems... ... and protect land - by reducing our footprint and respecting wildlife. america's natural gas... domestic, abundant, clean energy to power our lives... that's smarter power today. it's time now to clear the air. and while the president and speaker boehner continue to trudge through trickle as they try to reach an agreement, the fiscal cliff has already arrived for workers in michigan. the protests that marked the passage of legislation signed almost immediately by governor rick snyder were indicative of
the anger felt by hard working americans who know that their future will soon begin to darken. republicans like rick snyder argue these right to work laws will improve a state's economy by creating more jobs. but like many of their favorite mantras, the facts do not support the claim. an exhaustive study conducted by a highly respected economist has found that states which have already enacted the law have seen no increase in business start-ups or rates of employment. but what they have seen is this. employment, wages, and per capita personal income are all lower on average, in right to work states. so congratulations to governor rick snyder who's managed to ignore the facts and force through legislation during a lame duck session. the fiscal cliff come early to the workers of michigan.